CarnalNation

The "old" man as you refer to is I believe, a Belgian, not that, that has such a significance at this moment of time, none the less he is and remains power full to a comparison next to none, as far as you and I are concerned!

I do not believe he gets any funding although he may carry the power to influence the funding, for many, as and when required by the concerned council.

None the less he is a leader with a status which guards enormous fortunes that just a fraction of it could be sufficient to eliminate the poverty of the glob!

The question would remain if that ever could be the ultimate solution!
The discussion about condoms becomes hypothetical!

Dude I totally agree with you.
this man need to be completely ignored.
I have always believed that no one should tell us what to do or what to believe in, I believe that we should choose our believes by personal experience.
Thanks!

and there's no pope or catholics in bible. read it carefully. there's no churches in bible, etc...

Let's discuss everything that is wrong with that statement.

"If you accuse the Pope to be uninformed...your ignorance about history is sustained only with "popular myths" about Copernicus and Galileo. Are you sure that a Pope was involved in either processes? YOU ARE IGNORANT and full of malice."

First, don't ever use personal attacks in a rebuttal to an argument, it makes you look uneducated, unprofessional, and generally is what gives religious people a bad name in the first place. Second, caps lock stops being cool when you turn fifteen. Additionally, if you are going to make personal attacks, make sure that your facts are at least correct. The incident between the Catholic church and Nicolaus Copernicus was indeed not as major as some would make it out to be, however, there were still issues with the publication of his work. The differences between his original unpublished manuscripts, and the actual published thesis show that there was severe editing in the last days of his life by one of his pupils, while he was incapacitated by a stroke. (Lindberg, David C. "God and Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter Between Christianity and Science ) Later, Galileo Galilei built further upon the work of Copernicus and his theory of heliocentrism, confirming that the theory was correct by using the phases of Venus to show that things do in fact orbit the sun. The concept of orbit was shown to be true when he discovered four moons around Jupiter which periodically disappear from view, showing that they must therefore be moving around the planet. Moons orbiting around the planet broke the convention that all heavenly bodies must orbit the Earth, proving that philosophical doctrine wrong (Drake, Stillman, Galileo At Work.). The church then proceeded to throw Galileo to the Roman Inquisition, where we can assume he was probably tortured to an extent, and later cleared of all crimes. The church then went on to condemn heliocentrism as "false and contrary to scripture in Februrary 1616" (Sharratt, Michael, Galileo: Decisive Innovator).

Yet with all of that written above being fact, which we have now confirmed through modern science, you would still stand up for the Catholic church in all of its blatant ignorance in the face of science? Not to mention calling another person ignorant and full of malice because you failed to check the facts, and just accepting what I'm sure you were taught to believe in Sunday school.

Alright, Moving on.

"Let me ask you another question....If you have a son. Would you encourage him to have sex with people that you know have AIDS as long he wears condoms? I would tell him to abstain from it. I would created good habits to protect him more than condoms. You must hate African people to promote more sex where there is more AIDS. To give condoms away in Africa is to say: have sex even you are infected. Do not abstain. To create promiscuity is the worst and more criminal attitude....and YOU are the one who is against the Pope. The Catholic Church in Africa is the one that has more hospitals, brothers and nuns taking care of the sick people. The Belgium ones and you only make money and live a spoil live and dear to criticize our great HOLY FATHER. Thanks for your pride…"

No one would ever encourage their children to have sex with people infected with AIDS, and making a statement that says that people should use condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS in no way condones the act of having sex with people infected with AIDS. It is simply, an honest truth. Africa is not at all like America, something people from the modern western world seem to forget. It isn't possible for someone to run down to the corner store and pick up some condoms, or any type of birth control, which contributed greatly to the spread of AIDS in the first place. In countries that are made up of a large majority of Catholic citizens, it's no secret that abstinence is the only supported contraceptive and method of disease prevention. Because of this, many people believe that devices like condoms are evil, and it would therefore be less evil to just have sex. Honestly, people have sex. Everyone does it, some people just don't like to admit it. Proof for the failure of abstinence only programs:

In 2006, the Journal of Adolescent Health published a comprehensive survey of all peer-reviewed, and some non-peer-reviewed, studies of abstinence-only-until-marriage programs and concluded that such programs are not effective in changing teens’ sexual behaviors. A 2007 study mandated by Congress reached the same conclusion, finding that:

* None of the individual programs had statistically significant impacts on the rate of sexual abstinence.
* Programs did not affect the age at which sexually experienced youth first engaged in sexual intercourse.
* There was no difference between students who had attended Title V-funded abstinence-only-until-marriage programs (“abstinence group”) and students who received “only the usual services available in the absence of these programs” (“control group”) in the number of sexual partners with whom they had sex.
* There was no difference between abstinence and control group youth regarding condom usage.
* There was no difference between abstinence and control group youth in their expectations to abstain from sex until marriage.
* Programs had no impact on the number of reported pregnancies, births or sexually transmitted infections.

Furthermore, a reason that the spread of HIV in Africa is at the high rate it is, is that very few infected people actually know they're infected. HIV only has symptoms regarding a cold when it is first transmitted, and then is dormant, but still contagious for several years. The average citizen in Africa certainly can't afford to have regular STD tests performed, or visit a doctor regularly were such a disease would normally be caught. Most don't know they have the disease until it has progressed into acute onset AIDS, which then kills rapidly. These reasons have led to a near 75% infection rate in the very worst parts of Africa, which means that 3/4 people have the disease. Since it would be extraordinarily expensive to test every single person in Africa for AIDS, it's more cost effective to give out condoms with the message that the person you have sex with, no matter who it is, is probably infected. Be realistic, Abstinence only programs are only minimally effective here in the United States, and are essentially a waste of money. People have sex, it's our single purpose here on this planet and therefore the drive is irresistible. When people do have to have sex, they should do so safely and without fear of catching a disease that WILL kill them.

Many people are standing against the Pope because he is blindly ignoring scientifically proven facts, peer reviewed, edited, and published in the most respectable forums of knowledge in the world today. The Pope only has one book to go off of, which is notoriously inaccurate, contradictory, and has been translated without peer revision dozens of times. Other Catholic doctrines he's probably using or factoring into his decisions have no relevance to God or Jesus, but instead were made up by mortal men working for the Catholic church. (No Source, Common Knowledge) Furthermore, there are very few hospitals operating in Africa, with the majority of the operational ones being run by organizations such as the Red Cross, and I'm sure there is more than one Catholic church in Africa. Ask yourself this, which would be cheaper, a 10 cent condom, or the incredibly expensive treatment being supposedly provided by the hospitals you mentioned? The cost of treating AIDS over a lifetime had reached $102,000 per person...in 1992, and requires advanced medicine not available in a third world country such as Africa. (Altman, Lawrence K "Cost of Treating Aids Patients is Soaring". NY Times)

Finally, when describing anything within or from Belgium, it is "Belgian." Just thought you might want to know.

To the blogger - Sorry I wrote this huge reply, I just saw the proud Catholic's comment and it offended me and made me angry. Keep on writing good reports man.

Hai guyz,
Just saying fankz for all dis publicity yeh? Because, i like, dont do anything exept drive round inmy golf buggy interfering wif world polotics once in a while and is nice to see some of mai bitchez standin up for me cos i have no friends anymore and god stoped calling so im really lonely. It aint good that every woman i see i shout WHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE and then ask for anal sex and she sez no so i get my waffen SS i mean klu klux klan to kill her for saying no and no ive run out of stuff to say so fankz and remember to donate youre life to me plz.

Teh POpe

lolz

Mr. Anonymous,

You say that to give condoms away is to say "have sex even though you are infected?" No, this is wrong. You cannot stop people from having sex; it is hard coded into us. To have sex is to reproduce and create another generation. Those who do not have that instinct would die out in a single generation. It's as simple as that. When you distribute condoms, you are saying "We know as well as you do that having sex is a part of human nature, and that we can't stop you. However, if you're going to do it, use these and protect yourself."

Let me ask you another question...If you have a son. Hypothetically, where you live, 60% of the inhabitants have AIDS (like Africa). Your son is dating someone, and you know he's going to have sex with her sooner or later. Would you teach him abstinence, or would you teach him abstinence and then give him a condom, saying something like "son, if you have to do it, use this and protect yourself?"

Before you accuse me of being "full of malice," I sincerely have empathy for the victims of this epidemic in Africa. I am proud of the honest people working to take care of the sick, no matter what their religious persuasion. However, when the church outright lies and says condoms don't work, that is unwarranted. Defending such an action by the Pope, as well as viciously attacking those who have donated money for this program to help these people stop spreading a deadly disease, makes you ignorant.

But you're a moron. I'm Catholic too, and that doesn't make either of our arguments any more salient. You say you'd create good habits for your son, which shows the kind of person you are quite well.

You cannot create habits for others.
You cannot make people do things, especially when it's behind closed doors.

You CAN trick them into doing things, which is what the Pope has done. He said, "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms...On the contrary, it increases the problem."

Now, breaking that apart, any Catholic could see that what he means is that condoms promote sexual promiscuity. However, that is quite obviously not the case. If it were the case, why is promiscuity and the spread of HIV a problem even without condoms? Duh. Because people are promiscuous all on their own. (As for your son, one of two things is going to happen: he's either going to have a shame complex because you're *telling* him what he should do, which goes against biological drives, and not giving him a real outlet to reconcile those two, or he's going to eventually lose his fear of your disapproval and stop caring and/or let you know that he's having sex and you're not going to stop it.)

The point is to advise everyone to use condoms when they have sex. No one is going to stop having sex. Education is the key. Teach everyone to protect themselves and to consider their partner. People are going to have sex. That's just the way it is. To tell someone to abstain is unrealistic.
I have a son. I bought him his first box of condoms. He is now a successful, healthy man, who is very considerate, and trustworthy. I have always told him the truth. He's now 30 years old, has not gotten any STD, or impregnated anyone.

You might tell your son to abstain...he might...he might not. If he has sex, which he will, he should be careful and protect himself. But, if the worst happens, he can blame you for lying to him. This advise is much more valuable and realistic than telling people to abstain from sex. It's just stupid, ignorant and asking human beings to live in denial about their nature.

Anyone (including the pope) who admits to participation in any belief system is delusional by definition. Catholicism is nothing more than popular mythology. You can preach abstinence until you drop dead of suffocation but it still wont stop anyone from doing what makes us fundamentally human. Having sex. The Holly Father can suck my ass and lick my balls.

Religious nuts like you deserve to die from aids. Your religion has brought nothing but torture and suffering to humankind. Countless people have died in the name of Jesus Christ than any other name in all of history. Every state that has a high number of people like you who have this insane idea that if you preach abstinence people will listen and adhere-yet you have the highest teen pregnancy rates.

I am sorry that you have to be so angry but get over it. He screwed up and was caught lying. Why don't you go play with some little boys now... Seems to be much more what the catholics are about now anyways...

Honestly? You're blindness frightens me. The teaching of safe sex is especially important considering you will never know who is infected and who is not, especially in Africa. It's human nature to have sex, get over it. There is no encouragement for people to go have sex with those infected with AIDS, it is simply to educate those who may or may not be religious in safe sex practices. You should never let your beliefs get in the way of human safety against a disease that could potentially wipe out the human race with no cure. Anyway having a belief that someone is infallible, such as the pope, is insane and you should know better. That being said, someone in his position should not have said such a comment, when there are so many people trying to halt the spread of AIDS. He effectively worked against the greater good. Criticizing your leaders is a fundamental human right, Catholics seem to believe otherwise.. it's a shame.

you are an idiot. half the people in Africa that have aids do not know that they have the virus because they were never tested for the virus. where is your pride when because of your "HOLY FATHER" many more people get infected with the virus? people like you who support the pope when he made statements about not using condoms should be held responsible along with the pope for the spread of the virus.

You are fucking retarded. The thing is that you can't tell who has AIDS and who does not. People have sex. They always will. And they might as well be safe about it. And before you get all oh he doesn't believe in God I do and am a firm believer in Christ . Who by the way is looking down on you and the pope and thinking that you are both idiots, because you would rather this horrible disease spread than let a guy put a balloon on his cock. How dare you call yourself a Christian!

wow. just....wow.

Of what are you proud? Of being member of the same club of people who burnt thousands of so-called whitches? Proud of the Popes who made a deal with Hitler to get rid of the jews? These are no "popular myths" my friend, this is reality!

You say, "...the pope is saying that AIDS spreads because people have so much dirty sex... "

That's not true, that's not what he said at all. Your bias is nothing more than an untruth, a lie. In fact, you're spreading a lie, putting forth your own agenda for the sake of honest discussion, sharing and learning. You violate your own response in so doing and you become a hypocrit and your words, right or wrong, no longer have any meaning or value or authenticity. And as such, your whole position is null, moot, irresponsible and negligent, not to mention dismissed.

According the article, he said, said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse..." and further, "...a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems..."

Listen folks, it is real simple... no matter what your upbringing, no matter what you've come to believe in your time here on earth, no matter how you perceive the world or what moral unpinning lies at the root of your existence, no matter if your God is THE God, or your lack of faith will land you in hell... No matter any of this, as these are subjective opinions, debateable, open for interpretation and not ever will there be a 100% agreement on them.

There are but 2 agreed upon phenomenona that none of us can dispute. And from these 2 phenomenon and only these 2 phenomenons can we reach any consensual perspective. Everything else is a half-truth, half-lie to which we should all agree upon disagreement and move on with love, respect and care, but we don't have to. It would just make all our experience with less suffering. But again, without suffering, what's the point?

The 2 things upon which cannot be refuted...

1- The Self is experiencing a phenomenon, the definition of which is hardly concrete and subject to as many interpretations are there are experiences.

2- Via language, the above mentioned experience reveals meaningfulness, i.e. a naming of, of the phenomenon is an expressible manner to the Otherness (that which is not the Self) and thus posits the Other as also irrefutable. In other words, thru language, the Self is engaged with Non-Self in a reflective manner from which the Non-Self is definable.

Everything else after this is opinion and subject to debate.

Arriving to these 2 irreducible phenomenon takes education and an openness or willingness to go beyond what you think you know, which means you really really really need to let go of all your prejudices, bracket your pre-conclusions and hold them at bay.

And most importantly, any one who tells you otherwise, tells you that anything else is a fact or necessarily true is selling you something. You can buy it or not, but never forget that you chose to believe it and can choose not to belief it whenever you want. Faith is ephemeral. the 2 phenomenon are not. You cannot not have the experience you are having. And you cannot not reflect that experience thru meaningful engagement of language with that which is not you.

And that is all there really is. All is arbitrary and formed thru a historical infrastructure of Power, beyond Good and Evil, right and wrong, God and Devil, moral or beast.

As the 1 of the 2, you're duty is decide who has the Power and whether or not you care to share with that Power or put forth your own power.

For more on this... read.

start with existential phenomenology. then move to quantum physics. follow that up with Logic (so you can decipher the bs from 2 phenomenons). then perhaps educate yourself on the world's history through language. Move on to power structures (Foucault). Then read what the poets have been writing about for eons, Love. Then and only then, will you be authentic and be able to authentically explore the second phenomenon.

and if you really want to change the world, demand your yourself and your community get educated. I mean really educated, not breeding falsehoods and feeding the Power. True rigorous qwest for understanding. Study ontology, epistemology, and existentialism, to begin with. Figure out the questions first before handing out answers. Reask the questions to get meaningful and authentic answers.

You are EXTREMELY UNEDUCATED! Please read the article... The issue is that Condoms promote safe sex but Pope said that they do not and "PROMOTE AIDS" - this is absurd no matter who said it...

There is no god.
Christians, or whoever, spend 15 minutes on the internet, or open a scientific book, or something. If you do some unbiased research, you will find that it is all garbage.
One wouldn't believe a medical document that was written thousands of years ago by unknown people, then translated hundreds of times throughout history. That would be foolish.
I was raised a christian, went to Sunday school, and believed in god for many years. Then, suddenly, I opened my eyes and discovered that...its all nonsense.

Furthermore, all this about the pope and condoms, just proves how terrified the church is of facts...
Fact: people hump, no matter how hard you try to tell them to abstain. I did. My friends did. My parents did. Most of the abstinence kids from my school did abstain, until they went to college and escaped their parents scorn. There is no escape.
Fact: a condom is better than nothing.
Fact: a 10 cent piece of latex does not make people want to have sex. I made water balloons out of my first box my father gave me rather than immediately going on a sex-spree.
The article says to stand up for yourselves Catholics. If you want to believe in it, that's your business, but don't allow this sort of behavior to compound the issue. The pope was *gasp* in the wrong!

Because you aren't real, god.

Well said.

We should care because there are millions of Catholics around the world that listen to the doctrine of the Pope and a good lot of them are in Africa and other countries in serious struggles with STDs. If an influential world leader preached against Jewish people or Hispanic people or even women, I would assume that your comments would not be so casual and uncaring. The world needs to rid itself of ignorance, and it's everyone's responsibility to understand that our planet is getting smaller and smaller everyday, that we are all connected, and that everything has a consequence, including this. It matters because power entails responsibility, and those comments were very irresponsible words from a very popular and powerful man.

That's a great attitude to have. You think Catholics are the extremists but your basically declaring that the world would be a better place if they all got killed off. I'm surprising myself by actually sticking up for Catholicism but please stop assuming all Catholics are racist ignorant bigots. As a child I went on many mission trips with my church to other 3rd world countries. We would go into small villages and build a house or a clinic and ask for nothing in return. Preaching Catholicism was looked down upon during these trips. We would just go to help people in need. Those experiences will stay with me all my life and I am grateful for them. I would also like to point out that my minister at the time was as liberal as they come.

Don't let religious extremists on the internet make you so angry. Let their ignorance guide them and see where it gets them.

"There has not been a successful society without the condemnation of murder, nor has there been a successful society of adulterous sex. Lets look at some examples. The Nazis slaughtered millions of people. That's human nature, was it acceptable? The Chinese during the Nanking Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, raped and killed 100s of thousands of people. Was that acceptable? What I'm trying to get at is, our human nature is corrupt."

Obviously rape and mass murder are wrong.